Baby Thoughts

by Carrie

March 23, 2000

I've not been to the board much in the past few months, though I have lurked some as of late (it's looking great!). But I wrote this up and was told by several friends that I should post it.

This was inspired when a friend made a comment to me in chat one night about BBS, which I wasn't able to respond to at that exact moment, so I decided to write out my response. I found that once I started, I couldn't really stop. Instead of writing a short, concise response, it turned into an essay. (Then again, anyone who knows me wouldn't expect anything less. I'm not someone who's exactly known as a quiet person. LOL.) So when reading, please be aware that this was written as a response to that one friend, and then adapted from that, so that may be why some of the sections seem a bit personal.

Before I begin, I want to let you all know that I feel that you have every right to feel the way you do about a baby; I'm not trying to force anyone to feel the same way I do. Everyone has their own feelings on a baby storyline, and their own reasons for feeling that way. I'm simply trying to explain my viewpoint on the subject, and maybe this will provide some insight on why I want a BBS so much, and, to some degree, why I just can't shut up about it.

Before I try to rebut some of the objections made by my friend, I guess I should take a few steps backwards and explain why I want a baby in the first place.

First off, the characters want it. It's not like I'm pushing for AMC's Ryan and Gillian--who have never discussed children--to have a baby. (Insert your own couple here, if you'd like. I couldn't think of a good GL example, and a lot of people I know are familiar with Ryan and Gillian.) Their future children, along with Mick, PaPa, Ed, and Maureen, are the invisible characters in Manny's storyline. While they're not physically there, they're certainly an influence on the story. Strangely enough, that's one of the first substantial (i.e., going further than the storyline) thoughts that I had about Manny--that all of their actions were for their future children. While that's certainly not always true (oh, I know Manny so much better now...) those kids are definitely a force in this storyline. For example: When Danny wanted Michelle to run away, (Company, 2-7-00,) one of her objections was, "How are we gonna make this work with our kids... how are we gonna do this? When we have kids, they can't stay in school for more than three months..."

Secondly, I think that a baby would manifest a lot of themes in this story. Michelle's from her world, Danny's from his. They're married, but in the eyes of SF society, still separable. (Though, I think much of SF's starting to "get it," but I digress.) But a child's an undeniable, unbreakable bond that will ALWAYS be there, forever. I talk later on about the parent-child stuff, that Michelle and Danny have lost all of their parents, either by death, abandonment, or disownment. A baby could be used to explore that and/or bring it out.

Thirdly, Michelle and Danny want to have kids. I want them to have kids. Watching Danny take care of Michelle during the drunk scenes, and the first half of the last scene on the night before the verdict ("love scene" Monday...) I could so imagine a near-identical scene with him and their little daughter of five or six or so, tucking her into bed, reading her a little story, and promising to stay right there, the little one falling asleep curled up next to Daddy. From the "bup bup bup" as he gets her to climb into bed to the "ok, ok," as she protests something, to trying to get her to go to sleep by coaxing her into a nap...

And Christmas, that last scene on Christmas Eve... I can imagine them singing lullabies to their little baby...

And watching Michelle after Danny's car accident, sitting there and watching Danny. I can see her, sitting down in a rocker, in the corner of a darkened room, watching their little boy fall asleep, the gentle rise and fall of his chest as he lay dreaming in his little toddler bed, a small smile on his face, his Daddy's curls unruly on his forehead. And after the Mick fight, (Kristi also made a comment on this one,) she just *so* takes care of him, brings him his coat, listens to him, encouraging him to share with her, reassuring him that he's a good person. "C'mere, look at me, look at me." So like a mother.

And the baby discussions-LF/nursery day, discussing the nursery, their kids, wishing on the fake stars... BCP, and Michelle's "how much fun it's going to be..." Michelle wishing she'd given Danny a child... "not yet" of the day Carmen planted the gloves... and oh my word, pre-Cana. (Just pretend she's talking about Danny.) I watch all of this, so many scenes where they're so sweet, and tender, and loving, and I can just see, clearly as anything, how perfect they'll be with their kids.

Lastly--and most importantly--is their love for each other. It's so real, so true, so good. They love each other more than any words could ever say. And when they make love, that's truly what it is; it's exactly as it should be. And their having a child--giving each other a child--is the ultimate expression of that love. That little tiny baby would be a tangible reminder every day of their love for each other... something for them to hold onto, to show the world. Something that's theirs, only theirs, and always theirs. It just seems so perfect...

As far as the objections go...

First we have the threat of miscarriage. I truly believe that a miscarriage, along with a breakup, would be the only things, in regards to Manny, that I wouldn't be able to watch. I had another favorite couple this summer who suffered a miscarriage which all but did me in, and I was nowhere NEAR as attached to them then as I am to Manny now. And as much as I wanted that sweet little baby, I've placed about ten times as much emotional stake in a BBS. (You know, I honestly never thought I'd say that. Hm.) So I've definitely mulled this possibility in my mind. And if I thought it was a strong possibility, my walls would go up. Actually, I based a post on this, back on 11/12. That was *in my mind* the start of the current round of foreshadowing. After the show-and the liberal baby mentions, I entitled a post, "Am I reading too much into things, or was there foreshadowing going on?" An excerpt...

"However, I said adding a Manny *pregnancy* would stir things up, I think it's the idea more than the fact, in this situation, as all of the actions-or moreso, reactions-Carmen's, Danny's, Rick's-when they find out, that are going to be important. The child itself would not necessarily be important."

But the key words from that passage are "in this situation." What I was thinking then was that Michelle would find out right after she was put in prison. Reaction-wise, we'd see

     ~Michelle overjoyed at the thought of having Danny's baby, but at the same time, she'd be afraid that she wouldn't be able to see Danny or raise their child.

     ~Danny being overjoyed/freaking out/going ballistic (in true Danny fashion--we saw this when just Michelle was in jail, imagine if there had been a baby in the picture.)

     ~Carmen either working to get Michelle and baby out jail OR being glad because she still gets rid of Michelle, AND she gets a grandchild (more likely the latter.)

     ~And Rick. I'm not actually sure how he'd act, but just knowing Rick, I'm sure he'd have a noteworthy reaction.

But... after the initial reactions, there would have been very little need for the baby. Thus... miscarriage.

Now, though, it's a different story. The storyline I see them setting up is as follows: (though I could well be *totally* off base with this one, so don't take my word on it. I'm just using it here to establish my mindset and where I'm coming from.)

     ~Manny gets down to SC. They'll be there for a while, I think they're on the run until Michelle gets cleared, and I think that's May. So... if there is a BBS, I'd imagine they find out down in SC.

     ~Claire's set to return April 10. With all of the Ed mentions, Maureen's (albeit brief) return, the Carmen conflict, and now Claire, they've set up a great set of parent-child issues--with them as the children.

     ~If you take all of that, and add them taking on the roles of parents as well, GL *could* do an excellent (and character-driven!) storyline. Now... would I trust this to whoever wrote Manny mid-July to mid-November? No way. But whoever's writing Manny now... that's a different story.

And, if that's the story being set up (big if, though,) a miscarriage will not cut it--they need a baby.

Point two against a miscarriage deals with the Philip and Beth baby.

Hypothetically, if there is a BBS, we'll have two pregnancies on the show: Michelle's and Beth's. It's possible that both babies will make it--Michelle and Bill were born a month apart, and, more recently, Faith and Hope on ATWT were born very close together, (and they were two of four babies born in about eleven months,) so it's not unheard of. But, as a rule of thumb, when there are two simultaneous pregnancies on a show, only one baby makes it. And, besides, GL does a miscarriage about every two years, give or take. Dinah's was September '98, 18 months ago. (More on GL's history a bit later--it comes to play again in this argument.)

~  First off, you have the Philip and Beth baby. To begin with, it still could turn out to be Jim's--but there are no Beth and Jim fans, so there would be no protest from a fanbase if the baby were to be lost. OR it's Philip's... in which case, I highly doubt that there would be much fanbase protest, as I know that most (if not all) of the opinions I’ve seen expressed in regards to this pregnancy have not been positive ones. The baby's point is, presumably, two-fold--to save Lizzie, and to expose the adultery. Even if the baby is lost, the DNA is still there to save Lizzie; they could use stem cells or something. And, in order to reveal the fact that the baby may be compatible with Lizzie, the adultery needs to be exposed. Yet--no need for a live baby.

~  Then you have a BBS. No paternity doubt here! But, as I said above, the story will most likely be more about the baby than the pregnancy. Also, there's the fanbase to consider. Prior to the miscarriage on AMC, there was a scoop that said, "Something will happen that will majorly piss off the fans." (That is, BTW, a direct quote.) While I don't know the number of fans of each couple in general, I do know that this fanbase is much, MUCH larger than that one. And Rauch et al simply can NOT afford to "piss off" his fans--especially one of his biggest fanbases--the way that Agnes Nixon (AMC’s headwriter) and her crew did. Even though not everyone wants a baby right now, I think the majority of Mannyacs do, judging from the board, (though it's possible that those who don't are simply quiet about it,) and I'd imagine even some of those who don't want a baby would be upset by a miscarriage. (But I could be wrong about that too, I really don't know. It's an assumption on my part... and we all know what happens when you assume.)

One more point about a miscarriage. I've watched GL for not quite 7 years, and in that time they've done three miscarriages. The first (and this was actually from right when I started watching) was Jenna and Roger's baby. I don't recall the exact story, so I'm not going to presume whether this was a "good" baby or not, though I do recall Jenna being extremely distraught when she lost it. The second was Annie Dutton--who attempted to get pregnant via sabotaged birth control, and when that failed, she went to a sperm bank, and passed the baby off as Josh's. And the third was Dinah Marler--who tricked Rob into sleeping with her, then tricked Hart into THINKING that he'd slept with her, and attempted to pass the baby off as his. In the same time span, we've had some 8 or 9 (approximate... let's see... Meg, the Marler twins, Coop, Maureen, Rocky, RJ, Zach, Clarissa, and I think there are a few whom I'm forgetting) babies born. GL's history is to have almost all pregnancies end successfully-- *except* those which would be considered "bad" by moral standards (or, rather, whose mothers had engaged in deception to conceive them.) Now, while it wasn't Beth's intent to get pregnant, I can't see Beth and Philip's adulterous airplane baby surviving over Michelle and Danny's totally legitimate baby.

Another objection is the good ol' "It's not the right time" protest. Of *course* it's not the right time. They're on the run from the law--and the mob! Which, on a soap, makes it the perfect time. (Candy, I know, has expressed similar sentiment. Please forgive if anyone else has as well, and I've forgotten.) Even aside from that, though, I have two major fears about waiting.

~If Michelle's not already about 6 weeks along (at least,) the baby won't be born before Joie's contract is up. Call me selfish, but I want to see Joie and Paul's Michelle and Danny hold a little baby.

~Even if they stay--even if they're around for 10 years--that's no guarantee. As much as I KNOW everyone's sick of hearing about it (and boy, does this crop up soooo much more than I intended in this essay,) I can't pretend that I don't have the perspective of being a fan of a couple who's waited 11 years to have a child together, and has nothing more but an awful storyline that ended in a miscarriage to show for it. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't want to stick my edits in in 2009 and watch all of the baby mentions--BCP, LF/nursery day, Michelle wishing she'd given Danny a child, and so many more--and then turn on that day's GL and see it still be just the two of them. Just the thought breaks my heart.

One of the biggest objections that I was presented was about Rauch and co. [This has to do with a lot of things that I know are sensitive on this board, and in fact, I've done some major editing on this portion of this essay to try to avoid starting anything. So please, please, PLEASE, if you want to debate anything in this essay that you know could cause a ruckus on the board, email me at carriebg@yahoo.com and I'd be more than happy to discuss it with you further. I don't want to be responsible for starting anything, k?] I know that some people love them, but I'm not big on Rassie. And I just plain old want TB off my screen. Now, for some reason, someone seems to think they've found some rare talent in TB-to them, I have to say, whatever, to each his (or her) own. As far as Rassie, TPTB have noticed a surge in popularity there, and they're capitalizing on that right now. It's a business-I can't blame them. I HIGHLY doubt it will last much past that March 24th--even Manny's fanbase faded some after they "got together" in May, (or rather, with the lackadaisical storyline thereafter,) and they still have much of their original draw. However. as much as TPTB *appear* to value Rassie, watching the show, there's just no way. (If I don't make sense here, read Candy's RRR here , LOL, it says more or less the same thing, and much more eloquently.) Wednesday, 3/15--we had Danny doing whatever he had to do to get Michelle out of jail, AND had Jesse and Rick compromising their own morals AND the law to get Michelle a) out of jail, and b) back to Danny. Rassie was admitting their love for each other to a mirror--more or less the exact same lines three scenes in a row. Rassie's portrayed as a joke--Manny's not.

Maybe that's not a good example of how Manny's valued. My favorite thing from prison/divorce week might be better. In the course of a week, not ONLY did Danny and Michelle comment on the depth of their love for each other, but so did Olivia, Blake, Ross, Rick. Rassie had Noah. And--Noah was in the same scenes as Rassie. Therefore his comments were written by the same writers who wrote the Rassie scenes. However--Olivia, Blake, and Ross were all in scenes with someone OTHER than Manny, which means their comments were considerably more intentional by the writers, and the writing of them had to be done deliberately in breakdowns. Also--the fact that EP was brought back for one episode, for the sole reason of saying that Manny would be together in the end, to me speaks volumes. Having a character return from the dead *just* to reaffirm their love is huge--I'd be shocked out of my shoes if it was done for any other couple on the show.

Now... how does this speak to BBS? I don't have any unreasonable expectations for a pregnancy/baby. All I expect to see--and what GL normally "gives" to babies - are a couple of good scenes when Michelle finds out, and when she tells Danny (or when they find out together. But personally, I'm a sucker for Mommy telling Daddy... just so long as it's not during a screaming fight at a TV studio,) and a couple of sweet scenes when the baby's born. It's a soap-child actors are difficult to work with, expensive, and can't work many hours. AMC's Colby and ATWT's Faith and Hope are rare exceptions, in that they were all on-screen a lot as infants. Perhaps a BBS would be a similar exception--but I doubt it. I certainly don't expect to see anything even remotely SBF-like; that's why we have our fics. But then again, there is a chance we could get scenes like that... we get scenes like LF/nursery day. And I'd be overjoyed with one or two scenes like that.

Ack, I got a little off-track there.

But how does all of that speak to BBS? Basically, TPTB have proven to me that they *can* tell a story well. The real question is--will they? And no one can know that until it's all said and done. Hindsight's 20/20. Whatever they do, someone's going to wish it were done differently. We may all pull out our tapes in five years and say, "The biggest mistake in the Manny storyline was giving them a baby." Or, "not giving them a baby." Or that it was the best thing in the storyline- whichever way it goes. There may be a time when I rue the day that I ever wanted a BBS. Or--the storyline could go so well that it's everyone's favorite Manny storyline ever. Point is--we just can't know. So... basically, I'm sitting here weighing the possibilities. The story could range from something as utterly precious as they were today (3-20-00, "love shack" day #1,) to as terrible and frankly heartbreaking (for the fans) as TnD's story was this summer. But it's just as likely that the story will be all happy and peaches and cream as that it will be all gloom and doom and screaming matches.

Judging from the way the story's been told this far, we'd get a lot of angst, with enough sweet scenes to keep us from storming the studios. (We got the courtroom angst, prison, divorce... but got LF/nursery day, letter day, M's fantasy, today.) And looking at the history, I have to decide whether to have faith in the writers that they'd give me a good story, or doubt them all the way. So there are four possibilities--trust and a good story, trust and a bad story, no trust and a good story, or no trust and a bad story. If I don't trust them, and we get a bad story, then I don't set myself up to get hurt--but there's absolutely no chance that, in the case of a good storyline, I'll enjoy it... because I'll be too busy looking over my shoulder, picking at the flaws, and doubting what's going to happen next. So then I go ahead and trust them--and after this summer, I was nearly scarred for life (LOL,) because I did just that; it took a *lot* of coaxing to get me to look optimistically at a story again.

But if I trust them, if I tell myself it's all going to be ok in the end, then at least I'll enjoy the story-like the old saying, "Getting there is half the fun." (At least I think that's a saying... it was on a Care Bears suitcase I had when I was little.) I'll be the first to admit--now--that the pregnancy story I watched this summer was terrible. 1-2 days a week, 8 minutes of airtime a day, a total of 3 ½ hours of airtime (one hour of which was the week of the miscarriage) for a storyline fans had waited over a decade for? Ludicrous. But, at the time, I closed my eyes to all of the negativity, set my eyes on the goal--that baby--and ignored the terrible scenes that we were being given--in my mind, it was worth it, if we could just get that baby. In hindsight, there's a big part of me that wishes I hadn't been so naïve, or that the storyline had never been started, or that I'd turned off the TV a week into it, when it should've been clear that the storyline was doomed. But, frankly, not knowing what was coming up-not dreaming that anyone would ever so cruelly and callously rip away what a fanbase had waited and fought a decade for, I can't say that if I was given it to do again, I'd do it any differently. This summer was so much fun--thinking and dreaming and discussing all things baby with the other fans of this couple... how were we to know it would all go so terribly wrong?

Fact is, we couldn't. And there was really no reason to expect it. I really don't see a reason to with Manny, either. Even if there is--the storyline has long since been planned, and there's nothing we can do about it now. So why should I sit there and fret over every little thing? Why shouldn't I do some dreaming? Like... how will Michelle find out? Will Danny be with her, or will she get to tell him? And if she gets to tell him, (Oh please oh please let this be the case, and let it be sweet and wonderful and perfect and all this things it should be,) how will she do it? Over a romantic candlelight dinner? By dropping subtle little hints? When he gets home from wherever he is, and he comes in and asks her how her day was and what she did? (Like BCP.) As they're lying in bed at night, cuddling and holding each other like nothing else in the world matters? And how will he react? Will he shout? Jump up and down? Cry? Will he immediately bend down and start talking to her tummy? And if he does, will she laugh at him? Will the baby be a boy or a girl? What will they name him or her? What will be their hopes and dreams for him or her?

So many questions, things to get excited about, wonder about, await. If TPTB choose to go the baby route, I refuse to deprive myself of all of the fun of the dreaming just because I'm afraid that MADD, PR, B&E, Conforti, and crew will screw it up for me. And right now--*right now*-- it's too fun speculating about foreshadowing, what's not, when she'll find out and how... what it might be that sends them to the hospital... all of these things and more.

And it's these kind of things that have made me open up my mind to the possibility, and my heart to being broken... Just the look on Michelle's face, (which I'm sure Joie will portray perfectly) when she finds out about that baby. I can't deprive myself of that, I won't. So, I'm willing to risk Rauch and the headwriters, and hand my heart over to them. and hope that they treat Manny's child with as much reverence and respect as they treat Manny. And, barring any unforeseen or giant screw-ups, I'm sure they'll do just fine. I truly believe that--I have to.

I hope this answers some of the questions about me and BBS, and I hope it made some semblance of sense, and I was able to convey how much all of this has come to mean to me. I'd love to hear what everyone thinks. How off base am I? Any other objections? Let me know.

-Carrie